Story Matters Podcast
In the Story Matters Podcast, Hosts Ryan and Emily Baker discuss the intersection between theology and psychology helping listeners to better grasp how their particular stories have shaped them.
Story Matters Podcast
48. Why Are You Here?
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We talk about the motives that bring people to this podcast, narrative-focused trauma care, counseling, and discipleship. We love the desires that drive us, and we also name the risk. When we use Jesus as a tool to get a specific outcome, we shrink the gospel. Drawing on C.S. Lewis, we explore that in seeking God first, we trust that the fruit we’re craving often gets thrown in as a byproduct.
From there we connect story work to the deeper work of sanctification. We revisit Jesus’ image of the plank and the speck and why untended wounds can turn into judgment, contempt, and relational harm. We also wrestle with the cost of discipleship, the ways truth can feel disruptive, and a simple litmus test for our “why”: if the problem vanished tomorrow, would we still want Jesus and the healing he offers?
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Welcome And Core Vision
SPEAKER_00Welcome to the Story Matters Podcast. I'm Ryan Baker.
SPEAKER_01And I'm Emily Baker.
SPEAKER_00We believe people grow and heal through understanding how our stories are rooted in God's redemptive story.
SPEAKER_01We hope our conversations encourage you to engage your story in the world around you with a new lens.
A Question That Hits The Nerve
SPEAKER_00We're glad you're here. So the title of today's episode is Why Are You Here? And it's intentionally provocative. It has a lot of ways you could understand it. For me, I wanted to use that title because of an experience I had at a workshop where I'd been with this group. We've been together for some time and at breaks, getting to know each other more. But during one of the breaks, a participant looked at me and said, Why are you here? And I don't know how to say it like this person said it, but I'll just tell you it landed differently than just, hey, why are you here? Or yeah, what's your story? What brings you to this place? It felt to me a little bit more like I see you. Something's wrong. I don't know. And part of that is I have shame and my own story is playing into this. But I think if the Mona Lisa smile, you know, like, is she smiling? I mean, I guess, or maybe it's a smirk. Like, that's how this felt. Legally or on paper, it was a fine question. But I'm not, I never did circle back to ask this participant why. And it really doesn't matter because I think more of what happened was what was in within me, and it's lingered for years. And I think I want that to linger for you guys, for the listeners. Like, here we are, you're driving down the road or doing something and having a podcast in one of your ears, and maybe we're on 1.5 speed and you're blowing through the content, and you something draws you to story work or discipleship psychology, the thought of looking at your past or understanding further your story, or maybe you're on a journey. And what we want to do in this episode is pause a little bit, and that pause is the question, why are you here?
SPEAKER_01So did her question make you feel like you didn't belong? Is that what you're getting at? Like when you share that story, it makes me think it didn't feel good.
SPEAKER_00Well, in complete and utter honesty, what my body felt immediately was, I got you. This is all fake.
SPEAKER_01So, like I said, you don't belong here. Why are you here? So it would the emphasis was on you. I'm targeting you.
SPEAKER_00Again, how I received it, not necessarily how this participant meant it that I can tell, but what immediately landed and then my body kind of started to react to was this is almost like an internal voice. Yeah, what are you like really? Like, what are you doing here? I mean, everyone else here belongs.
SPEAKER_01Okay. So it was accusational.
SPEAKER_00It felt accusational, but this is why I'm bringing it up too. It's not one thing. I mean, as I've pondered it, as it even in that moment, there were maybe six different ways I could have taken it. So I I had that feeling going on. But then I also was aware of like, wow, that's super victim-minded. Like maybe it was a genuine, like I was wrestling with it. But more importantly, the reason I wanted to use that is not to dive into that story, but rather it had it a good effect. And this person's a friend. I mean, there was no, I I honestly don't think there was ill intent, at least not consciously. And maybe the person was attempting to ask it with more weight. But the point I'm getting at is I still had to wrestle with the question. And I still wrestle with that question. Why am I doing story work? What journey are you listener on? And why? And why this podcast, or why that Bible study, or why that group?
SPEAKER_01There's a few office episodes coming to mind, you know, when they had like certain party committees or the guys' group with D'Angelo.
SPEAKER_00Yes. D'Angelo Vickers is played by uh Will Farrell. Yes. Anyway. Maybe two episodes or three times.
SPEAKER_01I know. So and and Jim kind of sneaks in and they all look at him like, What are you doing here? And he had been in the group. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. No, that's good. They cut him out.
Motives That Cannot Carry You
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but I would not want anyone listening to this podcast to think, I mean, here's the funny thing. We don't know who listens to this podcast. We can't see names. It's a weird feeling to put these out there, and we know numbers, we know countries, we know locations, but we have no idea who's really listening. So we're not looking at you and saying, Why are you here? There's no shame. I think what I hear you saying, Ryan, is that question landed so unusually for you that you've pondered it almost like an internal accusation to what are your motives for this? Like, why are you showing up to listen to this lecture? Or why are you in seminary, or why are you doing story work? The list goes on and on. So, what's your point in asking our listeners today, why are you here?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, one of the reasons this came to mind is I I've noticed with different people engaging this work, there's often a motive to fix the marriage or to improve as a dad, or I'm I need to figure out my calling. These are all excellent reasons. But at the same time, in a mysterious way, they can't be the reason. That there has to be a deeper reason.
SPEAKER_01What do you mean?
SPEAKER_00Well, what I mean is that there's a mystery in the gospel. You know, Lewis has this famous quote: if you aim at holiness, you'll never get it. But if you aim at God, you'll get holiness thrown in. And he has these funny examples. He's like, if you're, for example, if you're trying to make a good first impression, you never will. But if you simply try to know the person, you'll make a great first impression. Or an artist, if you're trying to be super original and different, you never will. But if you really try to tell the truth in your art, he says nine times out of ten, you'll be original without meaning to. And I think he's picking up on a principle in the gospel where when we're trying to do the thing and we're using Jesus for that purpose, we're missing it. But when we go to him and seek him first and seek truth and open ourselves up, what we're actually after will come. And I think that plays right into story work as well.
Letting Go Of The Quick Fix
SPEAKER_01Oh, totally. Yeah. I do hear kind of that seeping out sometimes when people have come for the reasons you named, like, well, there's a problem. I'm going through this or that. So we explain our modality, which is obviously when we want to hear what's going on in current day situations and give care and really build some trust. It's not like we're gonna jump into childhood right away, but sooner than later, we're gonna try to connect the dots of the whole story of their life. How were they formed around their family of origin? What were some harms that were done to them that weren't cared for? How have they repeated? Seeing the whole story is gonna be our modality of helping them see more clearly. And I have seen pretty often people trust me in that. Like, okay, I'll trust you if that will help what my current problem is. But then they begin to see things about themselves they haven't wanted to see, or they're beginning to feel things they have long avoided to feel. And then come the why, why are we doing this?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. I think what you just described may be happening under the surface. I think often what's going to be said is like, when is the change coming, or how exactly is this gonna work out? And to me, it kind of reminds me of Peter like on the water. He's super focused on Jesus for a moment and then pretty quickly is aware of the elements. And I think often people will jump into this work like ready for anything, you know, I'm eager. And then weeks later, months later, days later, they look down at their feet and there's water. You know, maybe there's been another fight with the spouse or a child's been disrespectful yet again, or something far worse. And it's like, what are we doing? What let's find the fix. And what can seem difficult is in order to heal, you sort of have to let go of the problem. I don't know if you would agree with that.
SPEAKER_01Well, say more.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's what I was what we've already said about Lewis. And it's true across the board. If I want to become better at something, sport, whatever, I have to trust the process. Think about Mr. Miyagi, the classic example from the movies of the karate kid. Hey, what am I doing here? Why am I waxing your cards or catching using chopsticks or doing bonsai trees? I think the point is there's this problem and it's gripping me, and that's why I'm here. And yet, what you're telling me is I actually need to kind of back away from that. Not that it's not important, but it isn't as important. It's not the only thing that's important. Jesus does not just want to come in and fix your job, your boss, your spouse, your child, your addiction, your thing. He wants all of us, all of you. And that's sometimes where we're kind of, ooh, I'm not ready for that. I was just gonna do some story work, see if there's anything to this. I wrote one. And what we're saying is, okay, but there's a vulnerability in any form of discipleship and sanctification that can create the question, like, what are we doing? Why are we doing it this way? What's the payoff here? We're so caught up in that part of our brain that we're not trusting and we're not resting on him.
SPEAKER_01Well, I love the way you described all that, and it feels like a pretty good apologetic for why we aren't what some Christians would call therapeutic, and that we are so focused on just healing a problem that we lose sight of the gospel. We're actually pointing people to the gospel so much that in that broader training you described with Mr. Miyagi, we're wanting people to understand how to see more clearly, how to feel in their body certain sensations that would lead them to places that are difficult and painful, but yet immediately finding Jesus in a place they hadn't found. I heard you describing a lot more of a broader training than just let's find that one problem and fix that one problem. That doesn't do anyone good. That and going back to C.S. Lewis, Satan would be thrilled to heal your chill banes in order to give you cancer.
The Plank In The Eye Problem
SPEAKER_00A lot of times people might choose a diet because they want to lose weight or whatever. I heard one recently of someone doing like a raw food diet, but there were, oh my gosh, like I can see more clearly. You know, my cognition is improved, my general well-being, my skin. And when you start to hear the list, none of those were like, these are the things I need, but those were the benefits. And that's what I've experienced with clients, I think you have as well, who are like, I'm seeing differently. I'm able to respond differently. Now, when we start work, we don't say, here's the thing, you're gonna respond differently, you're gonna see different. We don't say those things, right? But when you do look at your story or you look at anything with your hands wide open, spirit, do your work, sword of spirit, come in and open the truth. That is infectious to the rest of our being. We talk a lot about how maybe parts of ourselves have been banished, whether it's tenderness or adventureness or creativity, and all of a sudden, so much can come online that that one little thing you wanted to fix. And here's the reality: your marriage may not get better. You'll be better, and it'd be wonderful if the marriage would improve. Or you may change careers completely. Your boss may never change, or whatever the situation. But the point is you'll be more whole and you'll have more access to who you're supposed to be in Christ as a creation of God and the spirit filling you when his truth courses through your veins. And there is no way we can even remotely talk about that as Christians without including our past, our story. It just can't be done.
SPEAKER_01Everything you just described as the benefits that come from story work sounds a lot like what you were saying way back at the beginning of our first season when we looked at Shalom Shattered, you brought up the plank and spec that we read that and totally think nothing of how did the plank get there. Again, if you want to ask why are you here, why is the plank there? Did the guy just jam a plank into his eye? He's just that stupid, or like you had made the point, it was jammed into his eye and he's learned to live with it. But if you remove that log, you can see really clearly and you can get close to people. It's a funny illustration that Jesus gave, but if you had a log sticking out of your eye, you can't get close to someone, it's gonna hit them. But as you were describing, look, you're gonna start responding differently, you're gonna see things differently. That's what that sounds like.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and again, whether you want to call it a parable or an illustration, obviously it's not real, so how real do we make it to understand what he's saying? I think most of us read that and think, I'm just not gonna name that there's a speck in anyone's eye. I'm just gonna avoid that. Because he says, do not judge. But that's not what he's teaching. What he's teaching is do not judge when you haven't named your own sin. And in this case, the way sin has wounded you. Again, the man didn't sin by putting a plank in his eye, but certainly it's sinful to ignore our wounds and try to keep going on. And that's what we talked about in that episode. That so many people in the church or in communities or in the healing arts have often not done their own work, but they love finding your speck. And the reasoning for that is another episode. But what we're saying is, oh, why don't we focus on our wounds, which can feel selfish, but then we can in a loving way help a person who really does have a thorn in their paw or a speck in their eye that they need real help because we know how to do it gently and with love and kindness. So I think that is a powerful place that we talked about, and it does work with this discussion.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, I you said something just now that it feels a little bit like I want to lean into before we just move on. I I know it's not maybe why you are you here, but you just said it's sinful to ignore. Did you hear yourself say that? So that's a pretty bold statement. I don't know that I disagree, but I think there should be some nuance. If you have been harmed in your childhood or adolescence or young adulthood, and you now find yourself in the healing arts, whether you're a pastor, teacher, mother, father, therapist, and you haven't looked at those things, you're ignoring. Is that sin? Because you just said it's sinful to ignore.
SPEAKER_00What Jesus seems to be suggesting is that judgmentalness, that is not healthy accountability or care, but truly judging another person, stems from wounds unnamed, untended to. I think it's fair to say, I mean, I think we would say this in our own world, like if in a modern culture, like if someone has a wound to the degree of a plank out of their face, whether it's a goiter on your neck, a cancer growing somewhere you just don't care about, to not attend to it alone is bad because it's gonna affect people. Like you have children and we need to be healthier. Well, in the same way, emotionally, if I have wounds which affect the way I interact and interface with humans, and to the point where Jesus seems to be describing, to the point where I actually become more critical than less, because logic would be man, I don't want to talk about eyes. I've got a plank, so I'm just gonna kind of avoid that topic. It's like, no, no, I see my role in this community to stare so closely at people's eyes, I look for specs. And it's like, wow, where did that come from? And so there's something about ignored woundedness that does lead toward disruptive relationship. Yeah, I would hold to that wording that when I'm not willing to look at my story or look at ways I've been harmed. I mean, what is the cross? You know, why I love when Paul says in Galatians 3, who has bewitched you before your very eyes, Jesus was publicly portrayed as crucified. Are you trying to perfect yourself by the law? I need to have healing for the harms done to me around shame and contempt and all the ways it's affected me, or the vows I've created because of it, or the agreements I've made. Those things can't be addressed if I won't address the original wound. And the cross is big enough to even go there and cry out for those wounds. Would you agree with that statement that in some ways it is a type of sin to avoid the wounds, especially when they are affecting how we treat others?
SPEAKER_01That's precisely what I was thinking of. How we treat others. Jesus' words are love your neighbor as yourself. So the assumption is if we're ignoring our own wounds, we're going to ignore others' wounds. The call is to love others how you love yourself. So if we think we can love others by ignoring our own wounds, that's the precise problem, is we will treat others the way we treat ourselves. There's ways that we're unkind to ourselves, and those will translate to how we treat others. And I will become judgmental.
SPEAKER_00I hear you saying if any of us have some wounding that we're ignoring, whether and again, sometimes we don't know it explicitly, but nonetheless, it's there. You're saying that will hinder us from loving others. Yes. But I want to take that further because I agree with that. What Jesus is teaching in that statement is actually I'll be judgmental of others.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah. Yeah, for sure. So if there is something that I am ignoring in my life and I kind of know it, I just don't want to go there, but I see someone else dealing with it in a way that is kind of disruptive, like they're going right at it. Maybe it's a community need or it's something in their family. I'm gonna judge them because it looks hard and I don't want to do it. That's the whole thing that I discussed with Melanie Schenkel is that you will get pushback from the community if you're doing something or you're naming something, or your behavior is causing disruption and the others don't want that.
SPEAKER_00And let me give an illustration. Let's say you grew up in a home where your mother was really critical of your appearance to the point where as an adult, male or female, you have some form of what we might call body dysmorphia, kind of a self-hate to the point of even being skewed at how you see your body. So that would be like the plank. When you look in the mirror or see photos, you're just always like, what are you doing to other people? How much joy and kindness are you having toward their appearance? Very little. It's either envy or judgment. It's going to be very hard to have that and then actually interface with another human on the basis of their personality and the words they're saying and your relationship because it's how the eye is currently working. Like Jesus says, the eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light. But those wounds have led to behaviors, if unaddressed, where we're not just struggling to love others, but we're actually judging them or holding them in contempt or envying them or any other number of things. And that's really what Jesus is saying. The person with the plank is literally staring for specks, trying to find any speck. Most people would be like, I couldn't see a speck in someone else's eye if you paid me a million dollars. I would never want to get that close. That's weird.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's like those socially unaware moments for people that you might catch someone else's eye like, does she not see? Is he not aware?
SPEAKER_00Can I make a public service announcement?
SPEAKER_01Oh, please.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01Should I make an This is my pet peeve? Do do do do do do do.
SPEAKER_00You know, close talkers like people get too close, so you kind of inch back. There's this thing I've noticed. It's when someone walks up to talk with me, and there's it's a setting where there's numerous people, but they're gonna come talk to you, but they're not gonna face me. They're gonna kind of like stand to the side. So I casually reposition to where we're a little bit more facing, and then they do it again. And I'm like, why does this person insist on making a 45 degree angle for this conversation?
SPEAKER_01So 45 degree angle talkers? Is that what you're saying?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. The door hinge talker.
SPEAKER_01I don't know if I've ever met one of those, but I'll be I'll be on the watch.
SPEAKER_00Trust me, you have.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Maybe it's more of a male thing than a female thing. I don't know. It's just interesting.
SPEAKER_01Maybe their warrior skills are always keeping one eye on the crowd.
SPEAKER_00Yes, exactly.
Discipleship Costs And Loving Truth
SPEAKER_01Okay, well, we got way off. Why are you here? Listener, why are you listening to us?
SPEAKER_00So so in Luke 14, Jesus says that the cost of discipleship, you know, he says, take up your cross. And he has this really crazy thing he says that I believe most of us either ignore completely or we go, okay, I'm sure somebody could explain that somewhere. I just don't want to hear it. But rarely have I found myself, and maybe you agree, listener, liking the next verse or two. He says, If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brother and sisters, yes, even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. And the reason I find that to be important for this conversation is the point we're making is everyone comes to story work, like, I want to have a better relationship with my father or my mother or my brothers or my spouse or my children or myself. That's my main goal. Jesus is obviously using a rhetorical device. He doesn't mean hate. He's getting our attention. And we know that his theology, what he's teaching over and over, it's love. And to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind. Love your neighbor as yourself. So you have to have self-love, you have to have neighbors whom you love as much as yourself. Who's my neighbor? Everybody. But the point is so often when we've placed something above truth, which is what often happens when people come to this work, we can be so desirous of something that we actually lose the truth and we begin to skew how we see things. And what we have found in story work, particularly, is one of the reasons we love this modality is when a person can bring a story from however long ago, and we can just look at that story by itself and not just analyze it, not just ask what it means today, but just really get into it, drop into that place, join that younger version of yourself with honesty, with humility. And even now, as I say those words, I can feel my body kind of resisting. There's a resistance to that. Like, ooh, we're going back to this story of hardship or trauma or embarrassment or whatever. But what's being said, what Jesus is saying is we must love truth. You know, he says in Matthew 10, which is a parallel verse to this, do not think I have come to bring peace, but a sword. Again, it's a rhetorical device. Of course, he came to bring peace. He's the prince of peace. But he's saying sometimes peace doesn't feel great. Sometimes telling the truth kind of hurts. And I think going back to the verses we just read from Luke 14, it will either happen or it can feel like we're hating our parents. And we've talked about this in this podcast. You know, we quoted our daughter, why do you hate me? But what we're getting at is we can often be so terrified of disrupting a community, a relationship, or even our own personal sense of self that we cunningly avoid the depths of truth in our own stories.
SPEAKER_01So a lot to think about. I thought of the part where Jesus in Matthew, he just so casually says, You who are evil know how to good give gifts. And you've even mentioned that before. Like, are we supposed to be offended that he just called us all evil? Like these are his disciples, and we are called to hate evil. And it feels like he's making a very dramatic contrast between all of those relationships you just named in Luke, father, brother, mother, sister, that they all have evil because we're all fallen humans, and he Has such a distinct love and holiness and truth.
SPEAKER_00So to tie this in, Jesus is essentially saying in those two locations, like, Why are you following me? Have you counted the cost? Do you know why you're doing it?
SPEAKER_01Why are you here?
A Litmus Test For Your Why
SPEAKER_00Why are you here? And I'm I'm struck. There's this weird place. When you think about the number of things that don't make it into the Bible, according to John, this one's an odd one. You know, someone yells out, Jesus, you know, Rabbi, and he gets his attention. You know, there are people that are clamoring for his attention and don't get it. And here's somebody goes, Rabbi, tell my brother to give me my half of the inheritance. And Jesus, like, who am I? Like, am I? I think he says, Am I a lawyer? But his response is basically like, Do you know whom you're talking to? Do you know what is being offered here? And yet, I've read that and thought, I would be furious if I had an inheritance that my sibling took all of, you know, who wouldn't? And yet, as amazing as it would be to find a modality that would fix my sibling relationship in such a way that I got my inheritance too, it's so much smaller and weaker than what we really have when we approach the throne of mercy of grace. As long as everything I hear you say to me in this work or anything I'm doing has to go through the filter of, will this fix my relationship? Will this make me stronger or break this thing? As long as it has to go through that filter, it's going to be so dumbed down. We're going to miss the beauty. And we're so terrified that if we let go of that thing and just trust, which is what we're called to do, trust the spirit, the sword of truth is going to come in and is able to divide, open up our stories and our wounds or present-day conflicts. And we're not going to be in these relationships that are shallow or where people are drawing sides or ignoring things because it's just too messy. That reality will change us in such a way that it's far more beautiful than I got my half of that money.
SPEAKER_01Well, and let's talk about demographic for a minute because we have a lot of people that we see and listen to this podcast that are single. And we've been saying over and over, fix your marriage.
SPEAKER_00I think siblings, maybe.
SPEAKER_01Siblings, family of origin, mother and father, these connections where it's like, well, what am I supposed to do? Can you give me any answers? Is this going to prepare me more? Or have I not seen something? And I think what I hear you saying is there's no guarantee about what it's going to do. The promises that we can cling to that are guarantees are that we will know Jesus more intimately in doing this work.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And I don't I want to be careful because singleness is such a sacred topic. There are people who are called to it, Paul tells us. And there are others who are like, I'm desperately longing for a spouse. And yet, again, we would agree, I think, that, okay, but as you come on this journey, the goal, it cannot be so I can fix the whatever's keeping people from loving me, or I keep choosing the wrong people, maybe I'll do story work so that my vision will get better and I can see through people. Or it has to be like as heartbreaking as that feels. I think that it pales in comparison to the reality of the vandalism of shalom in my life and my story and my body that Jesus wants to heal. And if on the other side, or in that process, this side of heaven, I am given the gift of a spouse for a recovered relationship with somebody, that's beautiful. It's a it's a beautiful byproduct. But I think that's the orientation because otherwise it just won't work.
SPEAKER_01I think I hear you saying the subtitle. If this episode was why are you here? The subtitle would be, What kind of healing are you looking for? Because the healing Jesus offers is eternal and sure because he's in charge. But the healing that we often want, we're powerless to make happen. We cannot change our mother. We cannot change our spouse, we cannot change our marriage status.
SPEAKER_00So here's a litmus test. How do we know? And Emily, you and I are included in this. I mean, we we all go through cycles where whether or not we started with the right motives, like, I just need this problem gone. How do we know as we're engaging our discipleship in general and specifically in in light of this podcast, story work, narrative-focused trauma care? How do we know that we're doing it wrongly?
SPEAKER_01Wrongly?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I'm just thinking, I'm just kind of posing this question for both of us. It's like, I imagine as a listener, and just you and I are both like, this is all great, but how like how would I really know it? Because we're so divided. You we talk about ambivalence, we have all these reasons. How will I ever really know? Or what's a practical way to go, okay, that that probably means I'm not really doing this for the right reason.
SPEAKER_01Okay, what? You tell me, I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I've seen this in the past where a person was wanting to do this work and it felt so right. And they read the right books and everything was great, but all of it was bent on fixing a marriage. And so one day when I started to have that sense, I asked the person, let me ask you this. Let's say that for whatever reason your spouse was just not in your life. Just imagine right now, that's not a thing. You could, if you want to be nicer, you could say, or you were getting along great. Either way, would you be doing this work? And that person stopped and essentially admitted, no. So that's what I think we're getting at. Like, are you following me just to get your half of the inheritance? Are you following me just to get along with your father or your mother or your spouse or your children or yourself? Or said another way, are those the things that would hinder your following me? Either way, if we're trying to do this work to get a particular thing completely fixed, then we're doing it with the wrong motives and it won't work.
SPEAKER_01Wow. It's a radical call of discipleship. As you talk through it, I'm feeling more and more like we haven't said these kind of words because we don't use this language very much, but we're doing discipleship. Like we would consider ourselves doing counseling, pastoral care, soul care, therapeutic work, you know, that lingo. But we're in a college town where a lot of college ministries are really focused on that one word, discipleship. And this is across many different types of ministries. It's beautiful. We make disciples of Christ. I don't know that we have ever thought of story matters as we make disciples of Christ, but when you're describing it like that, the healing that's gonna come through doing story work is radical. We watch it happen. That's why we're all in on this. But it's not going to look often like we thought it was gonna look. I can say that personally. I have so much more joy and freedom and wisdom than I could have ever imagined. And yet my life doesn't look how I would have thought 20 years ago. But it's one of following Christ. And I think we know as followers of Christ, it's a wild ride.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so listener, why are you here? Um, I want to be honest and I want to be clear. None of us have pure motives. None of us. So please do not hear us say that don't go down this road until you have a perfect motive. It will never happen. But at the same time, we do want to be honest about our motives. Some of you listen and you don't do the work. I want to talk for a moment to you. You listen, you like the theories. I've met people, oh, I've listened to this podcast or that podcast or I've read that book. And I was in that category forever. I just assumed by reading it was working until I realized it wasn't. Again, why? Like, what do you want? What are you afraid of? What are you what's keeping you? For those that do the work, you know, you meet with someone or you have a group or you've done story work. Again, I think a lot of us can say, yeah, I've done it. I have my core four stories or I've done my whatever, but there's so many more. Like, do we do we get it fixed? Is it over? Did it just get us into some kind of a new tribe and we're done? Or are we continuing to seek truth at our core? And so let that linger. Don't rush it, don't try to resolve it. So the question isn't whether you're doing the work correctly or you're doing the work completely for the right motive. It's whether you're willing to be changed by the truth it reveals. So, said another way, when we come to the cross, we come to the in the spirit, there are many things Jesus wants to do in us that we've never intended. And so often we'll start down a road for one reason, and that's fine. We just need to acknowledge that reason and then be willing to be taken on the wild ride that is sanctification.
SPEAKER_01I join you in that, and I just want to echo, listener, you will be changed by the truth that gets revealed. It's scary to see things we don't want to see. It's unnerving to feel things we don't want to feel. So this is work that's not meant to be done haphazardly. It's sacred work. Why are you here is a question that I want to feel inviting and not shaming. I want this episode to be, for you, Ryan, kind of a redemption to a question that's kind of haunted you. That made you feel like an outsider. We all contend with feeling like outsiders.
SPEAKER_00And that's why we chose the words that opens every episode. It can get annoying hearing the same intro every single time I know it. But we want to say every single time we're glad we're glad you're here. And this space is a welcoming space. And yet at the same time, it's a very healthy to say why. And can we linger over the question why? And can we do that work knowing we're safe, knowing we're welcome, knowing we belong? And here doesn't just mean here listening to this podcast. It means here on whatever your life map is. You're at the mall, you're looking at that huge map, or you're at the zoo or wherever you are, and there is this dot that says you are here. And we want to say we're glad you're here. But now let's ask the question why and how can we receive healing in that space?